Watertown Daily Times | Disillusioned in Cape by town elections results

Watertown Daily Times | Disillusioned in Cape by town elections results
TUESDAY, DECEMBER 1, 2009
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To the people of the town of Cape Vincent: Many of you probably feel disillusioned or even devastated by the results of the town elections. You may even feel victimized by certain "new" voters. But don't be too upset. You'll still be allowed to stock their favorite beer on local store shelves. You'll still be allowed to maintain the local highways, public buildings and local businesses while they enjoy their wine and cheese parties. You'll still be allowed to fight their fires.

And when they are sick or injured and call 911, you can still respond in the ambulance that your incoming supervisor doesn't know you have. Oh, and those of you who live in the village, don't worry about him changing the look of Broadway. He doesn't know that he won't also be the mayor of the village. And yes, it will still be called Cape Vincent, not Carthage.

I would like to express my great appreciation to Tom Rienbeck for his many years of unwavering dedication to the town of Cape Vincent. He has done an amazing job and accomplished so many positive things for Cape Vincent and its neighbors. My hope is that he won't be out of the supervisor's office for very long.

Julia Gosier

By aviary Sat., Dec. 05 at 8:23 am
Sorry, Julia, but with all due respect, this election was about honesty, transparency, respect and willingness to listen to one's constituants. While Mr. Reinbeck may have done many wonderful things for this town, the wind issue brought out the worst in him and others on the board. This pattern is being followed in communities all over the North Country. Town Boards cannot decided what's best for their towns. They need to listen to the people they represent with respect and an open mind. Sorry...that just didn't happen in CV.

By julia Fri., Dec. 04 at 8:23 pm
from Julia,
Some people apparently missed the main point of my letter. Yes, I am very much in favor of industrial wind in the town of Lyme, in the farmland areas of the town, not the waterfront areas. We desparately need the help it would bring to a financially strapped community. I also believe it is a sound environmental move. But the point I was making is that the incoming supervisor of Cape Vincent truly does not know enough about the town of Cape Vincent and its local government to govern it well. This election was of course about wind power or at least about power.I'm afraid the ability to govern well was lost in the "cause:.

comments:
By aviary Thu., Dec. 03 at 11:37 am
WDT you must have had a typo in that link somewhere. I have recopied it here:
http://www.wind-watch.org/news/2008/07/10/parcel-o wners-act-against-lyme/
By Pater Thu., Dec. 03 at 8:37 am
North Country,

Please, please -- make your substantive and logical arguments for wind power in Cape Vincent. Line 'em up and we will look at them. We can happily discuss those as long as you don't bring George Bush into the discussion or talk about "wine and cheese" parties vs those with a preference for beer -- or what a good guy Tom Rienbeck is. And let's leave out other irrelavancies such as Dick Cheny and national health care policy and the war in Afghanistan -- oh, and let's leave Sarah Palin out of the converstaion too. This is not about an amalgum of liberal vs. conservative hot points. It is about wind turbines in Cape Vincent.
If you wish to have a larger conversation about public policy in a more general way -- then say so. I will bow out of that one.
By WDT-Reader Wed., Dec. 02 at 8:04 pm
This explains it a little better...

http://www.wind-watch.org/news/2008/07/10/parcel-o wners-act-against-lyme/

So I guess you're just a little bitter... understandable I suppose... sorry?
By WDT-Reader Wed., Dec. 02 at 7:56 pm
So what is your position on industrial wind development anyway, Julia?

http://www.townoflyme.com/Board%20Minutes/2008/Jul y%209.pdf
By WDT-Reader Wed., Dec. 02 at 7:34 pm
North Country,
"I can't help but notice that whenever anyon in favor of wind power makes a point that is difficult to refute..." What are the merits of wind power that are "difficult to refute" and who has made them? I have yet to see any of those types of comments that have not been torn to shreds. There is no question. Anyone who does the research can not dispute that the negative costs far outweight any benefit. All you have to do is go through this presentation http://www.energypresentation.info and you'll see for yourself. On the contrary though, anyone who has tried to tout the benefits, hasn't offered any proof based in science. If I'm wrong, please correct me. We have a wonderful forum right here with which to debate the subject. Sadly, most of the 'pro-wind' arguments have been rooted in emotion, and lately have included this crap about rich/poor, seasonal/year-round, etc. I am definitely not rich, but have no problem seeing the flaws of wind energy, the conflicts of those who support it for no scientific reason and ultimately why Tom Rienbeck was ousted from office.
By north country Wed., Dec. 02 at 5:47 pm
Pater: this thread is also about logic and argumentation, or at least it should be. I still haven't made up my mind about wind power. However, I can't help but notice that whenever anyone in favor of wind power makes a point that is difficult to refute, you guys try to dismiss it on grounds that avoid the issue -- like accusing anyone who mentions money of "class warfare."

It's exactly what conservatives tried to do for 8 years under Bush: if a liberal made an observation that reflected poorly on the President, they were called unAmerican -- because it's much easier to call them a name than to refute their point.

You may not realize it, but you anti-wind guys do the same thing all the time. Someone challenges you, and you accuse them of a culture crime. It's a shortcut to real thinking and subverts productive discussion.
By Pater Wed., Dec. 02 at 1:44 pm
Aviary,

Could not agree with you more. North Country makes points that have nothing to do with wind power. But we can't ignore the efforts of so many, such as Julia, Nelson, North Country, and Tom Rienbeck himself, to distract and confuse the issue by turning it into a conflict between haves and have nots, year rounder vs. seasonal residents, etc.
Some potential lease income for some is now threatened, so they lash out on some misplaced emotional level.
By aviary Wed., Dec. 02 at 9:41 am
Frankly, I'm having a hard time understanding what this debate really has to do with wind power. No matter what wine you drink, what income you enjoy or whom you invite to your parties, science is science is science. They do not work properly, do not help our community with electricity, they are inefficient and expensive, and they cause more harm to the environment than they purport to alleviate. Keep your class wars and your snobbish judgements of other people just because they have...or don't have...money OUT of the fray. Everyone continues to lose sight of the science and grab onto the emotional implications. Keep the passion, but use it where it belongs!
By Pater Wed., Dec. 02 at 8:19 am
North Country,

Come on. This comment thread is about Julia's (and Nelson's) clear message that wind opponent's are disregardful of the needs of the broader community and only care about their own "part-time" interests.

When Julia presents this as a conflict between the "wine and cheese" crowd vs. the local "beer" regular folk, she is using a tired old class warfare cliche. Your comment clearly asked if my reference to Julia's points as class warfare was valid. Julia's comments were a flat out and unmistakable class warfare sales pitch.
Your other follow-up statements were just a collection of assertions (not much different than Nelson's) that the rich are at odds with the poor and opposed to health care reform, etc. Explain that. That may be obvious to you but not to me. And in any case, you jump to the conclusion that my refutation of Julia's letter was my use of class warfare against her. How? Julia could be a millionaire for all I know. Don't know the lady. But she is the one who invoked the image of the financial/social divide and never explained how that divide is pertinent to the issue of wind power in Cape Vincent or the outcome of the election in Cape Vincent. Nobody has yet explained how the less well off in Cape Vincent will be less well off as a result of Tom Rienbeck's defeat in the election. Yet that assertion has been repeatedly thrown out there as if it was plain to see! In fact, that assertion is nothing more than a cheap appeal to gut level base instincts and envy based resentments. Don't indulge in them.
By north country Wed., Dec. 02 at 7:38 am
Pater: the second half of your letter is a classic straw man fallacy, attributing to me a position that I never stated (and, for the record, do not hold), and then arguing against that position as if you are debating me. A clever tactic, but ultimately meaningless.

Don't believe me? Re-read your post. From the words "Careful who you call rich ..." the post becomes pure fiction, refuting claims made by no one, least of all me.

Still don't believe me? Re-read my initial post. I think you will find that you invented an argument, and then debated it.
By Pater Tue., Dec. 01 at 9:13 pm
North Country,

Why is it "class warfare" when we ask tough questions about the rich," you asked.

Statements by some seem to want paint this as a battle between the Tibbetts Point high rollers on one end of the scale and destitute sharecroppers on the other. That wealth divide in Cape Vincent does not exist. We are not talking about the Hamptons on the North Shore of Long Island here. Careful who you call rich and not so rich. Do you regard the wind leaseholders as "poor'" ? Is Darrell Aubertine poor? The net worth of many of the leaseholders is greater than many of the waterfront cottage owners. All class warfare is false warfare -- no matter which direction it flows. To resist industrial scale wind developemnt is not class warfare against anyone. If you want to make the case that it is, you are going to have to explain that.
By north country Tue., Dec. 01 at 8:57 pm
Why is it "class warfare" when we ask tough questions about the rich, but NOT class warfare when we ask tough questions about the poor?

I haven't heard a single person opposed to health care reform being accused of "class warfare," even though a common theme in their opposition is that "poor people want something for nothing."

The rich get everything for free: the avoid paying taxes, hide their money off shore, defer their salaries to avoid payroll tax, reward poor performance with big bonuses ... under Bush they not only got BIG tax beaks, but even got a $100,000 tax rebate if they bought themselves a new Hummer (that's not a joke, they really did).

Why is pointing this out "class warfare"? But criticizing the poor is ... just defending the American way?
By Caper Tue., Dec. 01 at 4:12 pm
Julia and Nelson,
Shame on you! You failed to mention just how filth rich these seasonal people are. They often have parties for 70 - 100 people at a time. They drink bottles of Far Niente 1999. (They wouldn't dream to drink NY wines...) The routinely munch on caviar and laugh gleefully while watching those people from Cpae Vincent mow their estate. Then, they sit down to a feast of Beef Wellington. After a night of wonderous festivities, the guests drive away in their BMW's, Lexus' and Mercedes. All is good for those rich seasonal people. Why do those people think they can come up here and vote for town officials? I say, "To hell with that idea of idea of taxation with representation." That's OK for the rest of the US but not for us Capers. Oh, I'm sorry Julia, you're not a Caper after all. But, you're sticking your nose our business. And you don't even own land in Cape Vincent. Hmmmm.
By Pater Tue., Dec. 01 at 2:40 pm
Gee wiz, Julia:

Trying your best to keep that old class warfare flame going aren't you. It won't work because that's not what any of this is about, as much as you might want it to be. When things don't go your way, you look for a boogyman to blame -- the "rich people."

And Nelson, you could have written speeches for the leaders in Beijing about thirty years ago. But heck -- even they don't talk about the evils of private enterprize anymore the way you do . Your rhetoric might still have a certain appeal in North Korea.
By Ed Tue., Dec. 01 at 2:10 pm
Nelson, since you interviewed the owner extensively, did you happen to ask him if he had any real estate investment advice for you? Did you ask about his educational background; how long he stayed in school, whether he had control of his job choices, if the Fla condo was a distressed sale, if any of his "rich" style was a result of marrying into money? If not, your comment isn't really helpful. And $250,000 doesn't buy very much these days, this place sounds like a bargain. If any landowners are going to make anywhere near that kind of money, I will be very surprised, but not as surprised as they will be when their new assessment after the exemptions run out show a pop of about $3 million per turbine.
By Cape Fear Tue., Dec. 01 at 10:43 am
Nelson,
Did you ask him how much his taxes were? Did you ask him if he had to pay those taxes year round even though he lived there part of the year? Did you ask him if he voted in Cape Vincent or Florida? You know he can vote at one of his homes, but not both.
Did you ask him if the people in Town mowed his lawn for free? Or, were they like the many in Cape Vincent who see the summer people as a source of income. I know of several whose income depend on their excellent lawn and landscape services. And, several of the beautiful homes on that road, Nelson, were built by a local contractor. I bet he would love to build many more. But, with the appearance of wind towers, he won't. And the ones he did build are going to lose 30% or more of their value.
What is your point, here, Nelson? That you agree that insulting the major portion of the tax base is a good thing for the community? Or, that having parties is bad. Or that you want seasonal people to just go away and take their economic support of our community with them.
Nelson, today, that same piece of property is paying more in local taxes than the wind company friendly Town Board is asking of the foreign wind developers for each of it's multi-million dollar wind turbines. Don't you think a multi-million dollar wind tower should pay more in taxes than a person's home, Nelson. Especially since, with wind, every single home in Cape Vincent is going to lose much of its value and have little chance of ever being sold.
Comment removed by author.
Comment removed by author.
By nelson Tue., Dec. 01 at 9:38 am
I decided not to make any more comments, but just one more. You are so patronizing talking to other concerned adults as if you are the "Oracle of Reason." Sometime ago, I was out on the Tibbetts Point road. I saw a sign in front of one of the summer homes. I decided to stop and take a tour, it was one of those beautiful summer evenings. I rang the bell, a rather well dressed well mannered gentleman came to the door. I said I was interested in his home and he said come on in. I came in and he showed me from one end to the other.

As I recall, at both ends there was a significant area for sitting and relaxing. He said, "I can have guests staying and I do not even know they are here, plenty of room." I asked, if I were here I would want to entertain. He said," My wife and I had 70 people in last night for a party and had plenty of room. I figure, "I could entertain a 100 without being crowded.

Then, I asked him about the land around the house, how do you take care of it, He said, "no problem" the lawn is 5 acres, but there is a riding lawn mower, and I have workers coming out from Cape Vincent, "they take care of it."

Then, I asked, "what about swimming in the river." He said, I don't swim in the river." He took me out to the rear of the home and showed me a cabana and a large "in ground pool." The whole property sat on 500 feet of waterfront.

Finally, I asked, "Is it warm in winter,?" He replied, "I would not know, I have a high rise condo in Ft. Lauderdale for the winter."

Now, the finale, how much? He replied 250,000 dollars, not a lot of money,
but, 25 years ago when I took a look it was a bundle and a half.

Now, that is money, would that guy have had a poor working couple out for his parties? They come out to take care of the place for him. Would he have wanted wind turbines? So some poor working guy might want a share of the "good life?'. I think not.
By Jefferson'sLeaningLeft Tue., Dec. 01 at 7:25 am
Julia,
Mr. Rienbeck lost the election because he lost the support of old friends who saw him taking the Town of Cape Vincent in the wrong direction.

He allowed wind contract holders to serve on the Board knowing that there were ethical problems. The Attorney General advised against them and even the wind company recognized them, but Mr. Rienbeck and the Board ignored the conflicts and even flaunted the ethical problems. The Town Board was corrupt in favor of the wind developers and Mr. Rienbeck allowed it. Like and old friend said, if you don't know what corruption is, ask your grand mother.

He attempted to violate the open meetings law by having a person arrested for using a camera at Town meetings. Only our astute county official prevented the arrest which would have launched expensive lawsuits against the Town.

He stated that he wanted to be fair to the wind companies and ignored the wishes of over 800 taxpayers who requested a moratorium to allow time to properly review important decisions. As it turns out, it appears that the Town was not asking enough from the wind companies to make up for the fact that land values in Cape Vincent will plummet and further growth in Town Valuation will cease. Everyone will lose, even the contract holders who will find they are not getting the best deals. Their land values, too, will plummet and their property will be near impossible to sell in the future. The wind companies need to come up with huge sums of money to cover the loss of all taxpayers in the Town of Cape Vincent. Remember, Julia, only a very small portion of the taxpayers are collecting a few bucks from this deal.

Tom Rienbeck proved that he should not be a Town official when he insulted 65% of the tax base by calling them rich and selfish. The tax money from the people who you despise allows employees to be paid and the Town to operate.COMMENT
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