Friday, June 22, 2012

Atmospheric Stability and Wind Turbine Noise

In this letter to the editor Clif Schneider,explains the concept of wind turbine noise and atmospheric stability .
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Some T.I. residents will be saying goodbye to those quiet summer evenings. There are now two wind turbine noise reports submitted by developers along the Thousand Islands corridor. One by AES-Acciona Energy concludes their project in Cape Vincent would not “create a significant noise impact.” PPM Atlantic Renewable, on the other hand, freely admits to Town of Clayton residents that their project “would be clearly audible.” In both cases, developers ignored the biggest potential noise threat from wind farm development — atmospheric stability.
First, we have to better understand wind and noise. When the wind blows, trees and shrubbery produce a lot of noise, enough to mask quieter sounds. When the wind subsides, other quiet sounds, like the sound of a cricket, can become more noticeable. This relates to wind turbine noise, too. Turbines are loudest when the wind is blowing hard. As wind subsides, turbines slow down making less noise. When the wind quits, turbines stop as well. However, there is a condition when turbines can still be noisy even after the wind stops blowing.
During clear, cloudless nights a process called radiation cooling takes place whereby the atmosphere next to the ground becomes stable — it decouples from the air mass just above the ground. What is significant about this decoupling is that there can be no wind at ground level, but the wind can be blowing quite hard at the height of a wind turbine. Here then is the worst-case scenario developers should be considering, turbines spinning loudly with no masking sounds close to the ground. Even worse, it can occur on summer nights with our bedroom windows wide open.

So, how frequent is atmospheric stability and how loud can the turbines get? From my review of Queens University survey, nearly forty percent of spring and summer nights could be associated with atmospheric stability. Therefore, atmospheric stability is notan infrequent occurance. In ground-breaking studies at a German wind park on the Dutch border, the Dutch physicist Dr G.P. van der Berg showed that “wind turbine noise could be up to 15-18 dBA higher than expected.” NYSDEC guidelines indicate that an increase of 15-20 dBA is “objectionable.”

In conclusion, we have the potential for a real problem. Participating landowners and local officials don’t know about this problem, but should. Developers know about the problem, but don’t want to deal with it. In any case, we should all discuss it before we make an unalterable decision that we might later regret, and if you don’t believe it can happen here, just visit Maple Ridge and talk to someone.

Clif Schneider
Cape Vincent NY

~~~

A report prepared by Clif Schneider, In response to sound studies from commercial wind developers,(Acciona Spain) & (Bp British Petroleum). A series of background noise surveys were conducted , in Cape Vincent, NY between May and July 2008.
The survey approach included sampling at night under stable atmospheric conditions and systematically selecting monitoring stations at 1.6 km intervals.

Link here to read the report ~Measuring Background Noise During Nights With Stable Atmospheric Conditions_InterNoise 2009 ~ Schneider

23 comments:

Anonymous said...

This morning at 6:00 am Wolfe Island was the typical jet roar that doesn't go away. I was sleeping on my screens porch. Which is aways a delight. Or, it used to be. Even the thunder is better than that turbine noise.

Anonymous said...

What credentials does Clif have to
make these observations. I thought his expertise was the feild DEC.Has any of his work been published,if so where can people find it.Why should we beleive him over the real experts in the Wind feild. You can't say he would not fabricate (not saying he has)because he has nothing to gain. He has alot to gain.He has admitted he does not want Turbines,he ran on that platform for elections.So how can we beleive him. So to many of us he has a conflict of interest.How can he be impartial and represent the whole town like he and running mates claim they would.Their open goverment is BS.They let you see what they want you to see.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

7:06

You still don't get it. You claim Mr. Scnheider has "something to gain" because he does not want turbines?

So then you are saying that any public official or any candidate for office who has opinions and preferences as to one public policy goal over another has a conflict of interest?

Please - I'm sure you know better. You can't water down the term "conflict of interest" to the point that it means nothing by saying that anyone who has a position contrary to someone else's has a conflict of interest.

Having opinions and policy positions is not a conflict of interest. What is a conflict of interest is when a public official is making official decisions regarding something this is contributing or will contribute directly to the official's own financial benefit - such as was the case with Richard Edsall, D. Mason and M. Mason.

Or -- are you trying to stretch the ethical concept of "conflict of interest" by suggesting that Mr. Schneider has a direct financial interest in the outcome of the wind issue -- preserving the value of his Cape Vincent Village home?

If that is what you are suggesting, let's talk about that. Let's talk about that a lot. How is the value of Mr. Schneider's home at risk by the prospect of wind development in town or by the propagation of wind turbine generated noise?

Your turn. Share your thoughts with us on that.

Anonymous said...

This is what 7:06 is saying:

"Schneider is trying to protect his net worth and his way of life. I'm trying to add to my net worth and improve my way of life.

"In this conflict I want to win and I want Schneider to lose because for me to win, Schneider (and all the others in Scheider's shoes) must lose."

Doesn't that about sum it up?

Kathryn Muschell said...

I provided a link in this post to Clif Schneider’s paper Measuring Background Noise during Nights with Stable Atmospheric Conditions.
~~
This paper was presented at INTER-NOISE 09, the 2009 Congress and Exposition on Noise Control Engineering. This, the 38th in a series of international congresses on noise control engineering was held in Ottawa, Canada on August 23-26, 2009. The theme of the congress was “Innovations in Practical Noise Control.”
~~~
Clif Schneider’s expertise and credentials are respected by the Institute of Noise Control Engineering of the USA, an international consortium of organizations with interests in acoustics and noise control.

ConcernedCitizen said...

7:06

Let me give you a comparison.

Clif Schnieder has far better credentials than Bryan Stumpf who has a degree in education yet was claiming to be an energy expert when he was out selling his Acciona project to Cape residents. Stumpf was a PR failure, the project folded and he is gone.

At the same time Karen Stumpf was acting on behalf of the developers and voters for wind as a property value expert and publicly claiming that the real expert, Michael McCann, licensed appraiser who has submitted testimony all over the world, was going around bragging that he was a shill for anti-wind . Karen then publicly went on to profess that McCann was telling "lies, lies, lies". Karen was giving out property value information without ever having a license or experience in the field.

Clif Schneider is a trained researcher with a degree and has academic credentials in a scientific field.

Also, Clif has worked under the tutelage and guidance of Chuck Ebbing and Rick James who are two very highly recognized and practicing sound engineers. Ebbing taught at an engineering school and was a sound engineer for a very large international corporation.

Clif has been recognized and has presented his papers and his opinions( as well as assisting with field work) at the invitation of many organizations who have recognized him as an expert in wind turbine sound.

Your attempts to re-define what is and what is not a financial conflict of interest amongst government officials has been a failure.

I realize that former Senator Aubertine wrote a letter to the wind lease conflicted officials telling them that their conflicts of interest where OK. But, the majority of the law abiding citizens did not buy into it and the town officials with financial conflicts of interest have be replaced. Aubertine was replaced, too.

Just because a couple Cape political leaders endorsed the wind lease conflicts of interest, that does not mean the whole community is willing to buy into your definition of conflicts of interest.

ConcernedCitizen said...

Let me add that Gary King made a public claim that voters for wind did their own economic study when he flatly disputed the results of the Town of Cape Vincent Wind Turbine Impact Study.

I believe theirs was a false claim. I believe that all Gary did was pass on some information from the wind developer. Because, right after Gary claimed they made their study, Acciona distributed an economic report that was the same as what voters for wind were claiming.

Anonymous said...

The following reference to Schneider's paper came from the Acoustic Ecology Institute's: Wind Farm Noise 2009 in Review:

Clifford P. Schneider. Measuring background noise with an attended, mobile survey during nights with stable atmospheric conditions. Internoise 2009.

Download: http://acousticecology.org/docs/Schneider_InterNoise2009CapeVincentAmbientNoise.pdf
Detailed AEI summary: http://aeinews.org/archives/565

"This study found that in one community where two new wind farms are planned, “worst case” atmospheric conditions can occur up to 30% of nights in summer and fall, peaking at over 40% of nights in early summer. The noise models being used by wind developers in Cape Vincent, NY, predict minimal impact on neighbors thanks to an average background ambient noise level of 45dB. This study found that on nights with little wind at ground level, actual ambient sound in this rural area is generally below 35dB, and in many areas, drops to 25dB or lower for much of the night. Also, and most importantly, the study used standard predictive measures (including wind differential at two near-ground heights, daytime solar radiation, and night time cloud over) to estimate how often the winds at turbine hub height would be high enough to turn the turbines on, even as the wind at ground level remained low –the situation that often triggers the worst night time noise complaints near wind farms.

The sobering result was that such nights, which create noise issues for neighbors far beyond those
predicted by the simpler noise modeling used during permitting, could be a regular occurrence for most of the summer and fall. After taking noise measurements at a wind farm currently operating in a
nearby town –which found levels similar to those predicted and allowed in current Cape Vincent
planning –the author notes that the vast majority of Cape Vincent homes will be close enough to hear the turbines easily on these “worst case” nights, with a third of local households likely to experience objectionable noise levels.

For this paper, we highly recommend checking out AEI’s much more detailed summary at the above
link."

Anonymous said...

Claiming that Schneider made up information because he has a conflict of interest is very slanderous. Can the voter for wind back up that claim?

Anonymous said...

Next time I see her hanging around
when the Town Board is doing the vouchers I'll ask her.

Anonymous said...

Anon 9:44 pm,
If you read my commet again,I wrote"I'M NOT SAYING HE DOES".I was saying he could because he doesn't want turbines.
What about Paul Doctuer,he has a conflict just like Karen Bourcy.He is related to the Woods family.
Just because he doesn't want wind,
doesn't mean he has no conflict,
his wife is a Wood.
TI,
Everyone wants to keep their homes and value of their homes.The Economy in this town and the bloggers are the blame right now.They say nothing good about Cape,except about its beauty and I agree Cape is beautiful,but remember beauty is only skin deep.All the blog stresses about, how bad and mean and corrupt people are.They try to tell everyone these people are evil because they want wind.Who wants to move into a place where there is so much turmoil.Stop blaming turbines when there not even here. The bloggers are creating so much hatred. I know it sounds like the kettle calling the pot black with me writing on this blog.I understand people wanting to keep their home value,but I also understand people trying to keep their homes too,and have a little extra to live on too. No one has to lose,but with all this fighting,someone will lose,be it Pro or anti,or Artical X.Time will tell.

Anonymous said...

We sacrificed for 30 years so we could own our own home. We made tough choices. It is not up to us to sacrifice the equity of our home so that someone that made bad choices
"can keep their homes too, and have a little extra to live on too."

Anonymous said...

9:09 am
Do you mean we made bad decisions by staying in Cape and making our homes and raising our families here.In my eyes that was not a sacrafice it was what I chose to do. You chose to do what you wanted.Do you think because you made sacrafices in the last 30 yrs. gives you the right to tell us we made bad decisions and does that give you the right to tell us what we can do and not do.You make it sound for the last 30 yrs.you have been unhappy with your life,because you were busy making sacraficies.I hope no children were invoved.

Anonymous said...

10:36am

What I am saying is that I am not responsible to pay your way. We all make choices in life. Sometimes we make sacrifices such as moving away, working several jobs and putting ourselves through school to better ourselves and our lives.
You chose to stay in Cape Vincent and raise a family there is nothing wrong with this, where the problem lies is expecting others to sacrifice so you can keep your home and have a little extra to live on too.
To your comment, I hope no children were involved.
I am happy to report that there were children involved, they are grown, successful and have what is called a good work ethic and they do not expect others to pay their way.

Anonymous said...

Wow again, 8:40 -

These three statements of yours jump out at me as revealing how far the divide is between you and me. And I needed no blogger to see the divide:

“Stop blaming turbines when [there] not even here.”

So – you would prefer that people hold off expressing their doubts, concerns and objections to over a hundred turbines until after the turbines are up and running? I see.

“I understand people wanting to keep their home value..”

No – no, I don’t think you do … at least not the homes of the majority of the people in the town.

“No one has to lose…”

You may prefer to think that nobody has to lose if the turbines go up. That self-deception may help you sleep at night. But it is a preposterous thing for you to say. There will be thousands of losers -in Cape Vincent and in surrounding towns.

Anonymous said...

Dammit! Why can't people understand their rights end where my nose begins! End of Story!

You can't better your own life at the expense of others, particularly your neighbors.

Why is this concept so difficult for some Cape residents to understand?

Answer: MONEY!

We have a community that will do a spaghetti diner fundraiser for someone who gets burned out of their home, but at the same time will screw a neighbor to make a buck. Go figure.

ConcernedCitizen said...

"What about Paul Doctuer,he has a conflict just like Karen Bourcy."

Because of the discovery of industrial wind corruption in New York State former AG Cuomo required wind developers to publish a list of the local public officials who had a financial interest in their development.

Guidelines were set defining the family and business relationships that were consider to be a financial conflict and the developers were asked to list those local official publicly.

I have been recently been told by some pro-wind wind people that they did not even realized that such a list existed.

Did you know the list existed, 8:40?

Thanks to the wind developers, the industrial wind conflicts of interest in our community were well defined and publicly announced. Holy crap, do you think we just made all that conflict stuff up?

As I understand it, Paul Docteur does not meet the AG criteria and therefore was never listed. The Donald Mason. Marty Mason, Richard Edsall, and Karen Bourcy conflicts were defined by Acciona Energia and British Petroleum and they were on a published list.

It was the wind developers that identified their financial conflict of interest, not the anti-wind.

We did not invent conflicts like you are.

Anonymous said...

This comment thread reveals the depth of denial in which some people in Cape Vincent remain regarding the fundamentals of civic rights and privileges, and the essentials of representative government. It should make us both angry and sad at the same time.

Anonymous said...

Every time I think of the people who don't understand the conflict of interest definition a little vomit rises into my mouth.

Anonymous said...

They not only don't understand conflict of interest, they don't understand shadow flicker, shadows across the lawn (two different things), low frequency noise, wind turbine syndrome, bird kill, etc.

Why is this? Because they don't want to know. Pretty simple stuff.
It's all about the money.

Anonymous said...

The jerk from Arizona is now blasting and trying to get into trouble a wind lease holder who contributed a lot to the town economic committee and the plan committee. He has suddenly become the expert on conflicts of interest and is accusing the town board of promoting further c of I.
What a f*#king idiot. How can a meathead who thinks he is so smart be so stupid?

Anonymous said...

Why is Arizona blasting off?
Does he have an ulterior motive?